Commenters BEWARE!

On May 1, 2012, in Guest Posts, Indie Authors, Opinion, Soap Box, by rsguthrie

But only if you fear being both the subject of a blog AND having one of your comments USED as a blog! I find one of the most difficult things—no, wait, THE most difficult thing—about blogging is worrying about the controversy it might stir up. Add to that the fact that the most salacious blogs get the most hits and you could make a great argument for blogging not being a business for which I’m perfectly cut.

It’s not that I mind disagreement. Several blogs back I actually talked about this very thing. Civil discourse. You remember. (Sure you do, because you read every one of my blogs. Right? RIIIIIGHT?). Call it what you will: respectful debate, civil discourse—it all means the same thing. We can agree to disagree and still learn something in the process.

But the Internet. Ohhh, the filthy, blood-caked, low-rent INTERNET. The Internet gets to be like that really quaint Irish pub on the corner downtown with the great bands, twenty outstanding beers on tap, and doesn’t even smell too much like barley-hops urine and vomit—but every other damn night someone (or two, or three) gets too drunk and there it is…a knock-down, tear-the-place-apart brawl. Never fails, does it? Right hooks, left uppercuts, gut punches, and even some good old fashioned cheap-shot eye-gouging…it’s ugly and the more you fight the worse it becomes.

You know the old saying. Want to start an argument? Express an opinion on the Internet.

Well a funny little thing happened on a stroll down Binary Lane the other day. I blogged. A commenter espoused. I blogged in response. The commenter wrote a SECOND comment worthy of a blog itself…and during NONE of it was anyone disrespectful, derogatory, disparaging, or disreputable. It was glorious. Honestly. It was everything I think a respectful exchange of thoughts, suggestions, agreements, disagreements, and practical discourse should be. In fact, the second comment from my beloved commenter (named Jericha Senyak, by the way, a lovely woman, artist, model, mind, and spirit you can—and should—get to know right here) was so incredible I wanted to use it as a guest blog, all on its own. We should all be able to talk, communicate, and yes, even argue, with such eloquence, grace, intelligence, and outright civilization. Here is Jericha’s comment in its entirety (reposted here with her permission):

Okay, let me just fess up right here and say yup, that was me, and okay, Rob, I am guilty as charged, or mostly. I was unfair to your post – because after reading it (which I did, thoroughly, four times, before I commented, and I took a few days to think about what I wanted to say) and the comments as well, I did a bad thing – I used your post as a soapbox. And I apologize. That was not good of me. You didn’t deserve it, and your readers didn’t deserve it. And I’d like to thank you for this post, which very gently and thoughtfully points out the flaws in what I wrote, and made me think VERY hard (and with a startled jolt of guilt!!) about what I’d said.

I DID make a sweeping statement about “what writing is.” That’s no good. I should totally know better than to do that. I also used a lot of “you” in that comment, and that was bad too – I didn’t mean it as you, specifically, Rob, I meant it in the sense of “one,” but it shoulda been a red flag: whoa, Jericha, start making some I-statements here. I do think you quoted it out of context – the context being that fame and fortune are things involving a hefty dollop of chance for almost all creative people – but then you did, also include a mention of the mild dramatization of what I said (In order, I assume, to illustrate its impact on you?) and that was nice.

Here’s what I meant, said another way: if I met a kid who had started writing a novel because she thought novel-writing was a quick ticket to fame and fortune, I would need to stifle my uncontrollable urge to pee myself laughing. But I said “you,” and going back to reread it, it DOES look like I’m pointing fingers. I didn’t mean to! I swear! I was generalizing! It was bad!

Now, I did NOT say (and do not believe!) that writing to sell books will make said writing cease to have heart. I know you noted that those were your words, not mine, and I appreciate that – because what I meant, and what I did not say well at all, was not “writing for money is dumb and awful” but rather “it’s pretty hard to make money writing, and if you’re in writing for the dolla dolla bills you might want to look into a better-paying profession.” Not because it’s impossible to make money as a writer, or because writers who make money are sell-outs, or because the quality of our writing necessarily suffers when we make money. Just because writing, and especially writing fiction, is not exactly a hot ticket to a paycheck, and yes, I DO get puzzled when folks get upset about not making money off their art, of ANY kind, because although it CAN happen and as far as I’m concerned OUGHT to happen a lot MORE, it doesn’t happen very often and if it did there wouldn’t be blogs like this one. (Sudden thought: am I just wildly, idiotically wrong about this? Is it actually relatively easy and I just have some stupid romantic notion of the starving artist? Uh oh…) Sure, the JK Rowlings and the Damien Hirsts of the world exist, but so do lottery ticket winners, and they kind of serve the same function: they’re part of the grand story of success, like the white picket fence and the self-made man and the bootstrapping college student. I didn’t mean one shouldn’t enjoy the monetary benefits of one’s labor, or strive to obtain them. I just meant that if money is your driving motivation, there’s a problem, because it’s rarely the outcome – of good writing (or any kind of art) OR bad.

But yes, mea culpa, I got on my high horse. Sorry. I’m off the horse and humbly apologizing, because I DO see how my comment (which was genuinely meant to say “gee, Rob, yeah, it sucks to not be able to write full-time, but I think you’re having a pretty awesome impact despite that!”) could be read as “people who write for money are sell-outs who don’t make AHT” (cue noble strains of violins here). I just get mad, not at you, Rob, not at other writers, but at the system that tells us that we can be wildly famous and successful or be nothing. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with not getting famous – with being where you are right now, for example, reaching readers, starting conversations, etc – a place I’d love to be myself, certainly. Yes, it would be nice for anyone making art to be able to do it full-time, whether from sales of said art or from being independently wealthy or any other way, because we need artists and it’d be really a much nicer world if we valued them as much as we do our investment bankers. And yes, having a different job DOES take away from your creative time – god knows I’m aware of that. I did NOT mean to imply that we should all just, you know, be in it for the general spiritual good of humankind and we should be thankful for being thrown the financial equivalent of scraps.

Artwork courtesy of Paul Basye

 

I guess it just made me really sad and frustrated to think of you reaching these hundreds of people, getting into the thousands, every year, and feeling like it’s not good enough. You were writing about wanting to reach the masses (ah, the elusive masses!) and I wanted to put in a vote for the masses maybe just not mattering as much as we think. Again, not because reaching the masses means YOU’RE A SELLOUT ZOMG, but because it’s awesome that you’re reaching anyone at ALL within the galactic vastness of the internet, and I just get bummed out at the idea that we’re all – creative folk generally – being sold this idea that IT’S NOT ENOUGH UNTIL YOU’RE TOTALLY FAMOUS. I do not have the impression, Rob, that you’re writing in order to get rich; as far as I can tell, richness would be an extremely nice perk as far as you’re concerned (am I right about this?) but isn’t the driving motivation, or you wouldn’t have made the comment about continuing to write if you were independently wealthy.

In short, I was writing a grumpy, somewhat self-righteous stop-feeling-sorry-for-yourself-you’re-doing-pretty-awesomely-I-think-anyway diatribe, but as with any time someone tells you to stop whinging and keep a stiff upper lip, it came across as less encouraging and more just plain snobbish. Um, whoops. Trying to learn my lesson here. I do really appreciate the thoughtful way you presented your feelings about my comment from your perspective (and the compliment to me as a person – geez, that was unnecessarily nice of you) and hopefully it will soothe your injured feelings a little to know that reading what you’ve written here did genuinely impact me and make me reconsider what I’D written. (Guilt twinge, guilt twinge!) You got me thinking hard, and I’m grateful for having my tactlessness and generalizing pointed out in such a genteel fashion. I’ll think a little harder before I post next time, honest.

 

 

13 Responses to Commenters BEWARE!

  1. I had a similar reasonable debate on my blog in April. It was nice to meet someone who was able to have a rational discussion about differing points of view (and in fact, in that case there had also been a misunderstanding/miscommunication). Interestingly enough, the rational debate was about racism. Things got heated when it came to gun control!

  2. ZaBeth Marsh says:

    Nice post from the both of you.

  3. Jon says:

    Heck does this mean we cant still have the good ol irish punch up? 🙂

    I love those

  4. Well, Jericha, I didn’t read the original post or comment, but I have to say – you write a great clarification! And you seem so completely together. Good for you. Sometimes the most difficult thing to do is right a wrong or offer an explanation.

  5. KD Rush says:

    Great post. And yes Rob, I *do* in fact read every blog post you make. 😉

  6. Jericha says:

    Thanks, Kathy! Look, it’s easy to get on your high horse. It’s just that, well, the thing about high horses is the fall can be a long way down. Far better to carefully get yourself down while you can…

    And Rob, I just read this today and I wondered what you might think of it in the context of your original post that sparked all this hullabaloo…

    • rsguthrie says:

      Well, first let me thank you for turning me on to a really cool blog that I plan to start reading! 🙂 <~commensurate smiley for that. As I read her post, however, I could not stop thinking "I never ask my readers to post reviews…maybe I should be!". I know that would contradict her point but the funny thing is, I am elated with my readers. They all give me great feedback, the overwhelming majority really like my writing, and a lot of them post incredible reviews (for which I then thank them). But even when someone tweets me "I LOVED your book" I feel queasy about asking them if they'd mind posting a review. I've always wanted to believe people were like your blogger and (metaphorically at least) shouted from the rooftops when they love something. That is exactly why I was so frustrated the day i wrote said hullabaloostic blog; every person who reads me seems convinced I am destined for great success yet no matter what I do I can't seem to bust through the tangle of branches between me and the coveted mainstream.

      What your blogger said (that you also said) and that everyone seems to be saying is TIIIIIME, young Jedi. It takes TIIIIME. Yeah, that's great when you're independently wealthy and can write and wait and not really worry too much about the glacial pace of your success as it builds one iota at a time. So yeah, I get it…keep plugging, keep writing, create a hullabaloo once in a while where you garner a new friend, and be happy you've got a talent to share. Oh, and make a whole bunch of fresh "Will write for food" signs. 🙂

  7. Would it be wrong that I suddenly have a massively huge girlcrush on Jericha up there right now?

    I recently had to really decide what I wanted as a blogger. I DO want to be successful, but I had to come to a conclusion on what success meant TO ME. Would I love to have a gazillion followers and see what I write RT’d all over the place? Of course, yes. But right now, I’m taking “successful” as meaning “writing what I write and reaching who I can.” And I’m happy with that.

    *obligatory disclaimer in which I reassure anyone whose primary criteria for success IS a gazillion followers and aforementioned RTs that I am not disparaging them. You go, girl/boy/alienbeing.*

  8. Jericha says:

    Joanne, I am drawing an utter blank at what could possibly be wrong with your girlcrush. I, for one, am highly flattered. And go you and your own definition of success. That’s what I was trying to hammer through Rob’s head, albeit hamhandedly.

    And Rob, the Booksluts are ah-may-zing. I really appreciated her post, and I don’t think your reaction goes against anything she was saying – as she pointed out, issuing a general “Hey, if you like my stuff, it’d be utterly delightful if you felt inspired to post a review!” is very different from “IF YOU LIKED IT REVIEW IT OR I WILL CRY AND KITTENS WILL DIE.” I DO think she’s right that if my work is awesome, my readers will pick up the slack without being asked, though, and if they’re not – well – maybe my work isn’t as spectacular as I thought.

    I do hear you on the yeah-well-that-whole-waiting-thing-is-nice-when-you-have-a-trust-fund grumble. (I brought up winning the lottery in my post because, um, I buy lottery tickets. Only occasionally, but THE HOPE IS THERE DAMMIT.) It’s just – isn’t this the ageless complaint of almost ALL artists, ever, always? Isn’t it a perfectly well-known fact that our society (most societies) fabulously undervalues its creative laborers, and creative labor in general? Have I asked you if you’re read Lewis Hyde’s The Gift yet?

  9. Donan Berg says:

    Post caught me offguard. Hesitate to comment except I find nothing wrong with Irish pubs, on native soil or not.

  10. paul basye says:

    I like the cartoon. Hi everyone. Please click on the funny drawing and see more of my drawings.my name is paul and im 48 years old.

  11. Jack Durish says:

    Has any tyrant ever been thrown over by “civil discourse?” Has any evil ever been replaced by righteousness by “civil discourse?” Has anyone ever had their opinion altered by “civil discourse?” How about “uncivil discourse?” Same questions. Could some one provide me with an example?

    • rsguthrie says:

      I’m guessing plenty of both went into the framing and eventual ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America and the construction and signing of the Declaration of Independence. Following that (plus one Hell of a bloody war), one tyrant, overthrown. At least on the soil of this new country.

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